Posts Tagged ‘Retiring In Thailand’
Our Retiring In Thailand House Build Project In Pakchong (Pak Chong) Inches Forwards
The dream of completing our retirement house build project in Pakchong (Pak Chong) never seems to waver in Kanyah, even though in previous posts I had reported how wobbly it felt for me.
Kanyah’s Update Progress Report
This is roughly how a telephone call from Kanyah in Pakchong (Pak Chong) to me went today:-
The builder is not ready to start for another 5 days. (Funny, I seem to have heard that before..)
By the way 5 days from today will be 14th June, three weeks since construction under our previous builder stopped when Kanyah terminated his contract on 25th May. (Story on the Kanyah Has Terminated The Builder Today – All Work Stops” Post)
Kanyah has purchased the following materials ready for when the house construction starts again:-
- Wood to finish the walls
- Nails for the wood
- Bamboo Mat and wood for the bamboo lining (I reported on this in the “It’s Clear Why She Sacked The Builder” Post)
- Wood to make the scaffolding for the workers to access the higher levels of the house from
- Plastic doors for the bathroom/bedrooms
Why On Earth Buy Plastic Doors For The Bathroom/Bedrooms At This Stage?
I didn’t say anything to Kanyah when she told me she had bought the plastic doors for the bathroom/bedrooms, but I was thinking “why on earth buy Plastic doors for the bathroom/bedrooms at this stage?”.
Why didn’t I say anything to her? It’s pointless trying to have a discussion with Kanyah over the phone. She tells me what she wants me to know and that’s just about it. (Appear familiar anyone?)
If I really have a point to make or something to explain I have to spend hours crafting a carefully worded email to send to her. Then it can take a few days to a a weeks to get her to open the email. Very frustrating.
As I have said before, communication is extremely difficult. Don’t forget by the way, that Kanyah speaks and can read English very well and understands English perfectly.
Like the Bamboo mat, these are the last things to be fitted. Like the Bamboo Mat, they will just lie around in the workshop for weeks or month getting dirty and deteriorating.
I really must put an email together to explain a logical purchasing strategy to Kanyah.
Do All Thai’s Have Backwards Logic ? – Question Answered.
On the same subject of purchasing doors, I suggested to Kanyah that since she has 5 days to wait (doing nothing) she should go to Korat and spend her time usefully looking for the exterior doors, i.e. the main folding door for the first Floor and my workshop door. From our visits to vendors in Pakchong (Pak Chong) she is unlikely to find them locally.
What was the answer? “It’s not time yet. Wait for the builder”.
Now I ask you, my dear patient reader, where is the logic in that? We need the exterior doors to close off the building and make it watertight so that we can fit the interior doors and Bamboo Mat. But she buys the interior doors and Bamboo Mat but refuses to buy the exterior doors!
Do all Thai’s have backwards logic or is it just Kanyah?
The answer is that there is no logic in what she has bought. Logic is not one of Kanyah’s strong points. She is strong willed, hot tempered and emotional. Logical she is not.
I really must put an email together to explain a logical purchasing strategy to Kanyah.
Progress Photos Coming Tomorrow…
Kanyah has promised to send me photos of the house tomorrow. These will show the house with the wooden walls half finished and unobscured by the wooden ‘scaffolding’ (that the old builder took away when he was kicked off the job).
So I look forward with eager anticipation for the email containing the photos tomorrow!
(That’s a joke by the way) I have about as much chance receiving the photos tomorrow as Kanyah has seeing the new builder on site in 5 days time…
Talking of builders what has come of our previous one…?
As it happens, apparently he is not bothering Kanyah, and that is something I was really worried about. Still time for an arson attack, though.
If he’s not bothered to make trouble then I can understand why. According to my figures he’s already made a handsome profit from us. Take the 200,000 Baht we paid him for work he never did, for example…
I Lost 200,000+ Baht When She Sacked The Builder
Having now checked the documents and worked out what the previous builder was paid and what he didn’t do for the money he had already been paid, I reckon that I have lost around 200,000 ~ 250,000 Baht because of the sacking.
The 200,000 is made up of Payment No. 6 of 155000, Baht for which the main part of the work was not complete, secondary ‘wing’ roofs not complete, (Payment No. 5), 63,000 Baht for the scaffolding which we paid for and which the builder removed from site plus the cost of removing and replacing the wood walls.
This is mitigated by 6 X 10,000 Baht = 60,000 Baht that we underpaid the builder compared to the original agreement.
(This 10,000 Baht reduction per Stage Payment from the original Contract was negotiated with the builder by Jalan to protect us from what has actually just happened!)
However, I still think we can complete the house in the original budget, if Kanyah is careful with her purchases.
I just mentioned that Kanyah should be careful with her purchases. Well you have seen how strong-willed she can be when she wants her own way (the sacking of the builder episode) but when it comes to negotiating a purchase she is… ruthless.
Here’s an example of something that happened a few years ago but which I’ll never forget because in retrospect it’s so funny.
Kanyah and the Cheap 500 Baht Folding Camping Table
The Negotiating Skills Of A Thai In The Marketplace
A few years ago, December 2006 to be exact, when this whole thing started, we were staying as always at the Mansion in Pakchong (Pak Chong).
The rooms in The Mansion don’t have tables as standard and I wanted one to work on with my lap top.
Here’s a photo of me using the very table I’m going to tell you about:-
Above, this is me in 2006 staying at The Mansion in Pakchong (Pak Chong), Thailand. I am sitting on the balcony overlooking the open-air Atrium. I’m online through The Mansion’s wireless broadband.
In the shop in Pakchong (Pak Chong) they wanted 800 Baht for the table. Kanyah beat them down to 500 Baht, but she wanted blood. they wouldn’t go lower and the sales girl walked away to serve another customer. We had been there about an hour already and I was getting tired and fed up of it.
In typical (to a Thai) westerns style I told her to pay the 5000 Baht and lets go.
I got a real mouthful from Kanyah blaming my presence (as the Farang) for the reason she couldn’t get the price down further.
Anyway I paid the 500 Baht and we took the table away. But Kanyah was not finished with me yet! She was furious that I had capitulated to the sales girl and insisted that I would never go with her when she went shopping again. I have written this in a few minutes but it took well over an hour and at the end of it we weren’t talking to each other… anybody connect with this?
If so please leave a comment below.
The end result, though was 2:0 to me. I got the table and Kanyah refuses to let me go shopping with her. Perfect.
As The Thai House Build Project Stumbles Into Another Day My Enthusiasm For This Whole Retiring In Thailand Project Saps Away.
Day 8 Friday 29 April, 2011
While some of you (who have more experience of living in Thailand than I have) will laugh at this others will be perhaps disappointed when I report on the way the Thailand house build project in Pakchong is going.
I, however, can only report what is happening and the way I feel about it.
I’m only really repeating here the same horror stries that I have read about on other websites aimed at expats living in Thailand. The difference is that it’s happening to me and it’s real.
Here is a short list of some of the issues we have faced in the last few days:-
Not Included – Burglar Bars
Our builder insists that although these are clearly shown on the Contract Drawings they are a specialist supply and not included in his price. In short we have to supply and install them ourselves. To my disappointment Kanyah (remember this is her house we are talking about) accepts the builder’s argument.
In addition to suddenly having quite a significant additional cost added ot the project there is also the problem of sourcing the items and integratinging them into the house structure and window configuration that we now have to do instead of the builder who has all the knowledge about these things.
I’m really annoyed by this outcome.
Not Included – Insect Screens
As above for Burglar Bars
We Have To Pay For The Materials Plus An Advance
I first mentioned this on Day of the Post “Thailand Retiring Plans Trashed?” when I reported that we had agreed to pay the builder 50,000 Baht towards buying wood for Stage 5 even though we had already paid 100% for Stage 5 and it was not complete.
Now it’s come to reality and we are handing over the money as you can read below.
We Buy The Floor Wood
Getting A Sample Of Wood For the Floorboards
I should have mentioned in the previous post that on Day 2 before we went to the wood merchant to look at the wood for the floorboards and walls I inspected the wood on site for the floorboards and was not happy with it. At the wood merchants (Day 2) I selected a piece of wood to use as a sample against which all future purchase would be judged. I have now added the detail of the visit to the wood merchant including some pictures of the floorboards I didn’t like and the “Approved” sample.
Kanyah and Jalan go with the builder to the wood shop and pay for the floor boards that will form the second floor.
She paid for the wood directly to the wood shop not to the builder but we also gave the builder an advsnce of 30,0000 Baht.
Wood Prices Gone Up 5% In 3 Days
I am duly informed that the wood prices wee looked at at the same wood shop had risen by some 5% in the last few days (while we had been in Hua Hin).
Frankly I don’t believe commodity prices can rise so fast like that especially when the wood shop has vast stocks on material that has probably been sitting there for many months.
Truckload Of Wood Delivered
At least we got some wood on site for the floorers to work with.
Above, the first delivery of floorboards for the second floor floor.
Main Floor Planks Being Fitted
See these photos and videos for general progress.
I Venture Onto The Second Floor To Inspect
Take a few videos and still photos.
- Floor Planks Quality Issues
- Nails visible and above the level of the wood
- Large gaps between the planks along the run of the planks (possible due to curved planks)
- Large gaps between ends of the planks where they have been cut roughly
When I complain to Kanyah who was idling in the neighbor’s hammock and had never ventured onto the second floor she isn’t concerned concerned – at least not until I show her the photos and the videos I just took having transferred them from the cameras to the lap-top. Then at last I seem to be getting the message across.
See these photos and videos for quality of workmanship.
Should All Sides Of the Floor Planks Be Varnished?
I am trying to persuade the builder that the floorboards (in particular those for the balcomy which is basically open to the elements) need to be varnished on all four sides.
This is after I sent this email to our builder about this on April 5, 2011:
Above, the email i sent to our builder on 5th April asking him to varnish the floorboards on all four sides. Click here or on the image to see the full sized email. (Opens in new window)
No, he says (in a mixture of English and Thai) that’s not necessary. His reasoning:-
- The planks are tongue-and groove. If you put the varnish on the tongue and groove part it will be impossible to fit the tongue inside the groove.
- When the planks get hot they will explode!
- In any case any gaps between the planks will be filled and then 5 coats of varnish applied which will prevent any water from getting into the gaps.
To me this is a major issue for the Balcony which is essentially an outdoor area completely exposed to the elements. I had previously made a sketch of how I expected the wood to be treated and sent it by email to Kanyah and the builder. But here we were going through all the arguments again – and I was losing…
Builder Can’t Find A Steel Door
The builder reports he can’t find a supplier for the steel door I have requested for the workshop and suggests we find one ourselves.
Gate Arrives
The gate is delivered and what a marvelous structure it is. It is left for fitting tomorrow.
Connected To The Internet At The Mansion
Until now I have been unable to get on the Internet at The Mansion. A Thai guy who knows his stuff soon sorts out my laptop and bingo… I’m online.
Udon Dies
Udon was an old Thai friend of Kanyah and I have known him for several years. He used to make a great deal of fuss about me perhaps because Kanyah always gave him a bottle or two of white whisky (Lao Khao) when we visited him.
He was in hospital in a critical condition after a family member disembowled his brains by smashing a meat cleaver into his skull in a drunken argument. So much for white whisky!
He passed away this night and we have to go to the funeral tomorrow.
Our Retiring In Thailand Project Seems To Be In Deep Trouble
This is just a quick text update on out retiring in Thailand house-build project. Since I arrived here in Pakchong on Friday 22 April, 2011, we (myself and my Thai wife, Kanyah) seem to have been very busy, but not accomplished much.
In fact the house build project seems to be in serious trouble. (I say ‘seems’ because you can never quite get to the truth about things here in Thailand.)
I have taken a ton of videos and some photos here in Thailand to show you and I’ll start uploading them to the website over the next few days. In the mantime here is a quick synopsis of what we have been up to in the last 7 days.
- Day 1. Friday 22 April arrived in Thailand 1500 local time and met by family and friends at the Bangkok Suvarnabhumi airport. Went to Kanyah’s daughter’s house (her daughter’s name is Daeng) in Bangkok for an hour, picked up some of Kanyah’s belongings and then driven to Pakchong in our Toyota Hilux Viga pickup by Kanyah. That journey normally takes two hours but we wasted two hours trying to get out of Bangkok and on to the road to Pakchong! ‘They’ blamed the new roadworks and bridge build that was going on as the reason they they couldn’t find the way..All I know is that after spending 18 hours travelling to Thailand I wasn’t very happy at spending two hours trying to get out of Bangkok and then another three hours driving to Pakchong…
- Day 2. Saturday 23 April. Visited the Thailand retirement house build plot and met the builder. Discussed a whole load of issues then went to the wood merchant to agree on the wood for the walls and floor and then to Home Pro to select doors and sanitaryware.
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Buying Wood For The Wooden Floors from The Wood Merchant In Pakchong (Pakchong), Thailand
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Before we went to the wood merchant, I had a look at the few lengths of wood on site. The wood was tongue-and-groove and quite narrow and thin. Many of the planks had large areas of discolouration - white colour – which even when stained still remained noticeably lighter than the darker areas of the wood. Not at all what I was expecting.
When we arrived at the wood merchant in Pakchong I must admit I was most disappointed by the lack of variety and poor quality of the wood available. I have learned a lot bout the kinds of hardwoods in Thailand and will do a separate article on wood and the hardwoods of Thailand and South East Asia later. (I’m talking about woods like Teak (obviously) Mai Makah, Mai Pradoo and many others.
I expected to see all these woods at the wood merchant, but was told that no, these woods are not available in Thailand. In fact the only wood they had was “Mai Malay” – a hard redwood from Malaysia. The wood offered was well undersized (1″ by 6″ was specified by my Thai Architect on the house plans), more like 5/8″ instead of 1″ when I measured it. O.K. I know that 1″ is nominal and sawn size and that the planed size is less, but 5/8″? Somebody is pulling a fast one here.
Many of the planks were bent (in the horizontal plane) and had the white discolouration of the planks that I saw back at the site.
After much complaining (by me) I selected a short (about 2 m long) piece of wood that looked half decent and decided that that would be “the standard or the “sample”. Only wood up to “the standard” would be accepted. Having agreed the type of wood we left for the site with me carrying the sample piece of wood. On the way out we were asked to pay for the wood! And we paid. Not the builder – us!
Anyway, here are some photos of the wood:-
Above, the “Approved” floorboard alongside unacceptable planks.
Above, a close up of the floorboards.
The Biggest Problem Of All – Lack Of Progress
The main issue that we discussed was the program and that’s where we have a major problem. Our builder keeps asking for payment for the next stage of the build when he hasn’t even finished the stage that we have already paid him for. It seems he has a cash-flow problem and as a result our build is a couple of weeks behind program whereas a month ago I was reporting that we were two weeks in front of programme.
This is a major issue for us because the build is progressing very slowly and we wonder if this builder has any intention of actually finishing it.
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It’s verging on the nightmare scenario where the builder walks away taking all the profit he has made up front and leaving you with a part-complete house to finish – if you can find another builder willing to take it on. More on this later when we have sorted it . (If we can)
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- Day 3. Sunday 24 April. Can’t remember much about this day except that Jalan (Kanyah’s nephew who is checking the house build for us) had to go back to his farm in Kamphaeng Phet to make a claim for some government hand out to farmers and that his son, Suranat was driving to Pakchong so that he could take us to Hua Hin – Kanyah (and myself) not knowing the way. By the way I insisted that this time I was going to get some real holiday (as in seaside and seafood) instead of just watching a house being built in Pakchong (or not being built as in our case).
- Day 4. Monday 25 April. Suranat drove us to Hua Hin. Stopped at Samut Songkhram, a coastal province at the mouth of the Mae Klong river to buy dried seafood stuff, like dried squid, dried prawns and Kapi. Found a very nice apartment to rent for 900 Baht/day for the three of us. Nice room and huge balcony where later had a seafood dinner.
- Day 5. Tuesday 26 April. A day the beach at Hua Hin. Bloody hot. Apart from the heat, just like Blackpool (In U.K.) masses of deck chairs and beach vendors, including donkey rides! Had a seafood lunch (photos later) that had no taste and was very expensive. I went back to the apartment in the afternoon to get on the Internet and Kanyah and Suranat went to Cha Am and bought load of seafood for our evening meal. By this time I was sick of prawns and crab meat! Decided we had had enough of Hua Hin and would go back to Pakchong tomorrow.
- Day 6. Wednesday 27 April. Suranat drove us to Pakchong. Stopped again at Samut Songkhram again to buy seafood stuff. This time they bought a load of Hoy Dong – a kind of fermented or preserved clam. Seafood lunch (again!).
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On arrival at Pakchong (a seven hour journey by the way including breaks for shopping & lunch) went directly to the construction site. Our neighbor reported that nothing much had happened while we were away. A bit of wood delivered and some rendering – that’s all. The site labour had asked our neighbour for money to buy food because our builder had not paid them! Had a beer or too and a joke with the neighbors listening to Creedence Clearwater Revival‘s “Have You Ever Seen The Rain” and others. - Day 7. Thursday 28 April. Waiting for Jalan to return from Kamphaeng Phet so that we can have a meeting with our builder and see how to progress the build. Finally met the builder late in the afternoon on site at our land in Pakchong and held an impromptu meeting.
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The meeting was held on site with with drawings and papers placed on a variety of desks comprising various planks of wood covered in cement droppings, a pile of wooden window frames, the drop-tail of our pick-up and so on. Not the kind of environment I am used to for site meetings in the UK. (Remember I am a professional engineer in the construction industry)..
The subjects discussed fall into two categories, one being various technical standards, materials and methods used in the build, and the other being the program and money. In short an agreement was reached on all subjects, although I conceded on many of the issues and agreed to pay the builder 50,000 Baht towards buying wood for Stage 5 even though we had already paid 100% for Stage 5 and it was not complete. I’ll be posting more info on these discusions in the next post, but this is long enough already so I’ll wrap it up now.
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See you in the next post.
Steel Mesh Fence Construction, Topsoil and Progress On The Second Floor
Pictures taken in Pakchong, Thailand first week of February, 2011
Progress On Building Our Retirement House At Pakchong (Pak Chong) In Thailand
Pretty obviously, the first picture shows the progress on building the house. Not a great deal to say really except that progress is good. They are preparing to cast the concrete ring beam at second floor level. If you look closely you can see the steel rebar for the columns up to roof level.
The pile of small stones you can see in the foreground will be used to form the access road – see below.
I have updated the Construction Schedule and Timeline and you can see those on the “Retiring In Thailand Timeline” page. I’m planning to visit Pakchong again for 11 days at Easter time – I already have my air ticket. At that stage according to the Construction Schedule the concrete columns up the roof level and the roof itself should be finished and the second floor walls be in progress.
Steel Mesh And Plants Fence-Hedge Construction
The next few pictures show the concept for the perimeter fence of our plot of land. the idea is to construct a steel-mesh fence and then to grow plants over the mesh to hide it from view. The result will look like a hedge but unlike hedges, there will be no chance for there to be holes through which our ducks and chickens can escape, or wild animals to enter. Additionally, the hedge will form a visual barrier both ways so that we can’t see our neighbours’ houses and the neighbours can’t see into our land. The benefits of the fence-hedge concept over for example wooden fence or brick wall:-
- Low cost (cost information given below)
- Fast to construct
- Long lasting
- Low maintenenace (when the right plants are selected
- Impervious to small animals
- Can’t see through
We will have to be careful in the choice of plants to grow on the fence. We don’t want the type of plants you can see in the photos of “The Mansion” hedge-fence – that needs too much hard work trimming it. Instead, Kanyah will put down some plants that climb the metal mesh but not grow bushy. She did tell me the name of the plants – it is a plant that has leaves that you can eat, like a vegetable. I’ll get the name from her, and put some pictures of it up here.
The image above shows the cheap lattice fence-hedge construction and concept. This is actually a fence-hedge picture taken at The Mansion in Pakchong where kanyah is staying while our house is being built.
In this photo (above) you can see how the hedge grows and hides the lattice metal fence.
Images Of The Latticework Fence Material For Our Retirement Home in Pakchong
As you can see in the image above, the fence materials comprise galvanised steel chain-link fencing in rolls, and galvanised steel tubes to comprise the support frame.
Above, the galvanised steel tubes that will form the frame for the fence panels.
The picture above shows one panel of the steel mesh fencing erected. It’s not clear how the panels will be supported. I suppose they will put some pots in the ground at the end of each panel. Have to wait for some more photos to see that.
The Katin Plant That Kanyah Will Grown On The Fence
Above you can see a picture of the Katin Plant that Kanyah will plant all along the security fence that she is having erected all along the perimeter of the land where we are building our retirement house.
The Katin Plant in the photo is small, it’s barely more than a seedling, but these plants grow quite tall, like trees. The advantages of using the Katin Plant to cover the lattice metal fence are:-
- The Katin plant does not grow “bushy” so it will not need a lot of trimming to keep it neat as, for example the hedge-fence at The Mansion (see above) does.
- The fruit of the Katin plant are actually edible vegetables. Katin is eaten raw with Nam Prik and has a taste similar to Cha-oom. The vegetable hangs in bunches of strings about 100 to 150 mm long. The fruit is shown in the photo below.
Tastes a bit ‘strange’ to the Western pallette!
The Price Of Fencing In Thailand
The cost of the materails to build the perimeter fence around our land in Pakchong was 115,900 Baht ( £2,318 at 50 Baht/£). The perimeter of your land is 180 meters not including the front line adjoining the main road where we will be putting a wall and gates. This is for a one Rai plot of building land. (One Rai = 1,600 square meters. More about Thai land measurement units)
So, 115,900 / 180 = 644 Baht/m (Or 13 £/m) which is very cheap.
Of course there is the labor cost for putting up the fence. This is 320 Baht per man-day.
Kanyah did give a price for the labor of 64,800 Baht. (Don’t know where she got that from, though)
If that does turn out to be the true labor cost, the total will be 115,900 + 64,800 = 180,700 Baht (£3,614) or 1,003 Baht/m (£20/m)
Adding Top Soil Including Cost Details
The level of the main access road to our land is about half a meter (500 mm) higher than the ground level at the point where our house is built. Kanyah wanted to have what will become the front garden flat so she had 10 truck loads of top soil laid on the land in front to the house.
Note that the house foundations were already in place before this soil was added – the house is not founded on the back-filled soil!
The soil cost 1,400 Baht (£28) per truck. Total for ten trucks = 14,000 Baht (£280).
Add to that the cost of the tractor to level the soil out. Plus she wants two more truck loads. I will have to get the volume (or weight) of the soil from Kanyah.
In the picture above you can see that on the left hand side there appears to be a ‘track’ running down between the blue house neighbours land and our house. This is 3.5 m wide and will form the main access road not only to our house but also to the land at the rear on which we have an option to purchase.
Thai Retirement House Construction Contract Signed Jan 02, 2011
The following message sent to everyone on the Announcement List 2 Jan 2011:-
Hi everybody, and Happy New year!
A bit late, I know, but it’s been a long couple of weeks.
I bought a new air ticket and flew out to Bangkok on Christmas day. Goodbye snow and ice-bound U.K. and welcome 30 deg C + Thailand!
It has been an endless round of talking to builders, going to wonderful restaurants and watching the Pakchong Cowboy Show. (More later on that)
But after a hectic, frustrating, and very busy couple of weeks, we have finally signed a contract with a builder to have our retirement house built in beautiful Pakchong.
In fact as I write this email, our builder is on the way to see us to present the final drawings that will accompany the Construction Contract.
With my brand new CamCorder I have recorded hours of ‘footage’ (pardon American language but there doesn’t seem to be an English equivalent) of my visit and the Pakchong Cowboy Show. The climax was the firework display at 12 midnight on December 31st and it was sensational.
I’ll be posting a movie of that (along with all the other stuff) later when I have had time to edit it, but it really was out of this world. For example, the firework displays put on for the Chinese Olympics pales in comparison. And that’s no exaggeration.
Oh! And the music at the Pakchong Cowboy Show was also fantastic. This was far better than Glastonbury – and it was completely free…
What a wonderful place Pakchong is.
That’s all for now, more movies and photos to on the website soon.
So another massive step forward to achieving our dream of retiring in Thailand.
It can be done!
Best Regards
Alan and Kanyah Brown


















