Posts Tagged ‘Retirement’

After Our Thai Landscape Gardener Asked For An Extra 30,000 Baht I Asked Kanyah To Terminate The Contract!

Rip-Off Thai Gardener Suspected Of Being In Cahoots With Our Neighbour Over Extortinate Commisssions

Kanyah phoned me this morning to tell me that the day before yesterday our Thai landscape gardener had arrived on site at our retirement house in Pakchong (Pak Chong), Thailand, with 3 labourers and cleared the garden areas of vegetation, builder’s waste and other rubbish ready to comence the garden landscaping.

She told me the labour cost 220 baht/day which is line with what some people have mentioned in comments on the previous post ”Gardening Contract For Our Retirement House In Pakchong (Pak Chong), Thailand“.

Kanyah told me how clean the garden areas looked now and promised to send me some photos so that I can post them up here on the RetiringInThailand website.

She also told me that the gardener had asked her for another 30,000 Baht on top of the 120,000 Baht we had already agreed for the landscaping of our Thai garden as detailed on the “Gardening Contract Post.

She explained that she had been angry with the gardener and was yelling at him asking why he was asking for more money now and why didn’t he ask for 130,000 Baht when her husband (myself) was there (in Pakchong) and when the contract was negotiated and agreed?

“We didn’t tell you the price was 120,000 Baht” she told him. “That was your price, not ours. If you wanted 130,000 Baht why didn’t you ask for it” she told him.

She asked me what I wanted to do. To go along with the 130,000 Baht or to cancel the contract?

Well, no doubt you won’t be surprised that I firmly asked Kanyah to cancel the contract.

Kanyah agreed with me 100% and said she was suspicious of our neighbour Noi trying to sqeeze more money out of us through the gardener.

Update As The Gardener Returns And Is Promptly Sent Packing

Literally just a few minutes ago – about an hour after Kanyah’s first telephone call this morning – she called me again the say that the Thai landscape gardener had returned and she told him that the contract was terminated and told him to leave.

She also said that when she made the first telephone call to me this morning the neighbour’s wife Tim had been standing in our doorway, listenening. Kanyah suspects she was spying for Noi.

Seems Like What People Have Said Is true

After I made the the “Gardening Contract Post several people emailed me or posted a comment on the website to say that at 120,000 Baht i was being ripped off and warned me about the neighbour being in on the deal to get a fat commission.

Seems they may well have been right after all!

Some people suggested that there were several gardening centers around Pakchong (Pak Chong) and that I should go out and visit them to get advice and costs, buy plants etc and basically ‘do the landscape gardening’ myself.

I did explain (at length) that I am back in the U.K. now and that I have not time to spend in Pakchong (Pak Chong) making a Thai garden.

I suggested this route of visiting the local gardening centers in and around Pakchong (Pak Chong) to Kanyah but she wasn’t too enthusiastic about it to say the least. here approach seems to be to leave the garden as it is until I can go over and sort it out.

Well, I guess I could sort it out (i.e. get the garden areas landscaped and looking nice) but I’m no gardener and my retiring in Thailand plans are all about building steam model engines in my model engineering workshop!

So unless somehow Kanyah manages to find another thai landscape gardener then it looks like the Thai garden will stay rather bare for some time to come.

Gardening Contract For Our Retirement House In Pakchong (Pak Chong), Thailand

Thailand Landscaping And Garden Design Contract For Our Retirement House In Pakchong (Pak Chong), Thailand

Thoughts, ideas and a plan to make a beautiful Thailand garden design based on other Thailand gardens.

As I write this the house itself (except for the second floor kitchen) is finished but the Thai garden is still rough and needs landscaping and planting after.

My  15,000 Baht Landscaping And Gardening Budget.

I agreed with Kanyah that I would pay for a Thai gardener to produce the Thai garden design and undertake the gardening etc, thinking it would cost a few hundred £. (£= Great British Pounds – Sterling), say maximum £500 = 15,000 Baht. I was prepared to pay for a professional Thai landscape design rather than let Kanyah struggle with the Thailand garden design.

When I retire to Thailand I want a nice cool and beautiful Thailand garden, somewhere to really relax after a morning in the workshop making my models.

One thing we wanted was a “covered terrace” for want of a better word – an area with some wooden posts that climbing plants grow over it and make a shady and cool place to sit in the hot weather.

The main areas of the land, front and back to be lawn (grassed) and planted with trees. Small climbing plants to go around the perimeter fence to hide it. I did not want any water features because they need a lot of maintenance.

Enter The Thai Gardener

Our neighbour, Noi, introduced us to a Thai gardener and he came to visit us.

The scope of the gardening work was discussed and I caught hold of a few pieces of the conversation which was taking place in the Thai language like ‘clearing the land’ is not included and ‘putting the new soil is not included’. When I heard a price of 200,000 Baht I said we would do the Thai gardening ourselves.

I just couldn’t understand why Kanyah can’t hire the labour and organise them to do the Thai gardening work.

There was also some discussion that there was currently no “Malaysian Grass” available. The gardener got on the phone to “head office” and that was confirmed. Also he said that “Malaysian Grass” cost 30 Baht per square metre. We had about 1,200 m2 to be covered by lawn so that would amount to 36,000 Baht. I wondered what the other 164,000 Baht would be spent on.

It seemed that the grass would be put down in pre-grown roll form. I suggested that Kanyah could simply get the labourers to place grass seed and that would be far cheaper. The gardener said that “They won’t sell you grass seed in Thailand”. I replied that I would send it to Kanyah by mail. That started a whole lot of conversation about send parcels by mail, import duty and so on.

Exit The Thai Gardener

I had heard enough and walked away. There was no way I was interested in that kind of rip-off.

After about an hour or so of noisy discussion between Kanyah, the Thai gardener and Noi, Kanyah explained that the Thai gardener would include the land clearing and put the soil for 120,000 Baht all-in price.

I Demand A Thai Landscape Gardening Contract

I kind of agreed to the revised offer for the gardening design and work but said I wanted everything written down into a contract. Having been stung by our first builder I was not prepared to agree to a deal based on a noisy conversation in the Thai language with a 120,000 Baht price tag attached to it and nothing written down.

The Thai gardener went away and said he would come back another day with the contract.

He did come back a couple of days later but without a contract. After much discussion between Kanyah, the Thai gardener and our neighbour, Noi, he went off and return an hour later with a pre-written “Form of Contract” such as you can buy in stationery shops and places like Tesco Lotus here in Thailand.

From what I gathered the intention was to simply enter the names of the two parties (the Thai gardener and Kanyah), put the date and the cost and bingo! You have a contract.

Not The Kind Of Thai Landscape Gardening Contract I Had In Mind

That was not at all what I had in mind. I wanted a proper description of what was to be provided for the Thailand garden. If possible with sketches and the type and quantity of plants itemised. I wanted to know – in written form – exactly what kind of Thailand garden design was being provided for my money.

Kanyah kind of understood what I was driving at – particularly when I said a wanted to see a list – she knows what a list is – and she took out an exercise book and got the Thai gardener to write a list of what he was to provide. The list came to me for agreement and I sent it back to have more details added. After this repeated itself a few times Kanyah complained that I was making her (and presumably the Thai gardener and Noi) do “hard work”.

In no kindly manner (you’ll understand what I mean) I explained that it was I who had to do a thousand times more hard work back in the U.K. to earn the money to pay for the garden than she was doing in Thailand to make the list.

Eventually the list was agreed and signed by the Thai gardener.

There were still some omissions to which Kanyah said something like “Never mind he has to do that”.

Below is a copy of the list from the exercise book and a rough English translation made by Kanyah as I sit typing this out. Click here or on the image to see the full size version as a .pdf file.

Pakchong Retirement House Gardening Contract

Gardening List English Translation

Below is the rough translation into English of the gardening contract written in Thai in the exercise book

Date: 30/12/2011

1. Put the soil 5 trucks in front

2. Put the soil 8 trucks in the back

3. Put the sand 3 trucks in front

4. Put the sand 6 trucks in the back

5. Grass – Japanese 350 Talang metre in front

6. Grass Malaysia – 16 Talang metre

7. Grass Malaysia – 500 Talang metre in the back

8. “Mai Brob” Growing the tree 50 “ton” (50 trees about 3 m high).

9. “Tiang Tong 1,000 ton”. Small tree plants 1,000.

10. Little and small plants grow around all the fence.

11. Put in the pot “Daily Ga-Tang” (Plants)

12. Four Post “covered terrace” to grow the plants. The posts to be hard wood. He will put the plants.

Everything 120,000 Baht. (£2,500 or $3,750)

Take time 3 months.

Start 10 Jan 2012

Finish 10 March 2012

Signed: Surapon Chua Ngang

Warranty people: Jalan Mea Na Lu Ji (Noi – our neighbour)

Payment Schedule:-
10 Jan 20,000 Baht
10 Mar 40,000 Baht
10 Apr 60,000 Baht
Total 120,000 Baht

Included but not written down is:-

Clearing the ground.

3 Months guarantee. i.e. after 3 months all the plants have to be healthy or the Thai gardener has to replace them. The Thai gardener is responsible for looking after the plants in this period.

What Do You Think?

Our land is 80m X 20m = 1,600 m2 (one Rai). About 600 m2 is taken up with the house and Terrace and about 200 m2 by the drive leaving around 800 m2 to be landscaped. The total in the Contract is 850 m2 – see above)

So 120,000 Baht / 800 m2 = 150 Baht/m2. Is that a fair price?

Before giving your opinion in the Comment Box below, please quickly review the Scope of Work (i.e. The Contract) above which includes 22 trucks of sand/soil, 850 m2 of turf, 50 trees about 3 m high and 1,000 small tree plants, little and small plants grow around all the fence plus the Terrace.

A very happy Christmas to you, your family and friends from Alan and Kanyah in Pakchong, Thailand.

I’m typing this on my laptop sitting in my garden in our retirement house in Pakchong where I arrived yesterday evening from UK.

Alan At His Retirement House In Pakchong Christmas Day 2011

There’s a lot to tell you, quite a lot of good news (the house is lovely) and one piece of bad news – a very unwelcome bombshell in fact that will drastically affect the whole retirement in Thailand project! If I had known this I probably would never have gone ahead with the house build as it is.

And if you intend to live to Thailand when you are in your 60s (and if what I was told is true) then this is likely to be a very serious matter for you!

That’s all for now. I’ll go write up my news now and take some more photos and a movie or two.

All the news will be posted on the next Post on Boxing day. (Tomorrow)

Kanyah Is Now Living In The Newly Complete Retirement House In Thailand

Kanyah Is Too Lonely In Her Newly Completed Retirement House At Pakchong (Pak Chong)

Now all the building work is complete and the shock of living on her own is too much for Kanyah.

A sobbing Kanyah phoned me three times in the last few minutes to tell me how lonely she was in the house all by herself. Yes, yesterday they had the house blessing ceremony (Keun Baan Mai) and her sister and nephew’s son came to visit her from Kamphaeng Phet. The had her family with her and all the monks performing the ceremony.

Her sister and nephew’s (Jalan’s) son stayed overnight in the house but now (now it’s mid afternoon in Thailand) they have all gone home and she is alone by herself and very lonely.

A Lifetime’s Dream Come True And She Doesn’t Like It

After spending a lifetime waiting and fighting to get her own house in Thailand and spending nearly a year putting herself under great stress building one in Pakchong (Pak Chong) the truth come home to hit Kanyah hard. She doesn’t want to live there because she is alone and too lonely.

Well, I can imagine her feelings at the moment. I had a great sense of ‘loss’ when I finished my degree exams many years ago. After all the stress and being busy, working hard and being surrounded by builders, suddenly all the people are gone, all the work is complete and there is nothing left to do an no people around.

Kanyah just has to focus on the next stages of the retirement project. For her it’s getting the house furnished and sorting out the garden. She has got to learn to slow down and relax and to be comfortable with her own company.

Unfortunately it’s one of the great challenges that people face when they retire. Not many can cope with it very well.

A Few Bits And Pieces To Finish Off And Send More Money

Kanyah told me that there just a couple of things to finish off at the house:-

1. The water tanks have been delivered and the builder has to finish them. Kanyah didn’t explain what that meant but I assume it’s providing water pumps and maybe a downpipe from the gutters.
2. The water supply to our house is (if I am understanding what Kanyah is telling me) is not from a municipal water supply but is a local supply from a well set up by the local people. Hence the water is not clean and the builder told her she should fit a water filter. She mentioned 20,000 Baht but she’s not sure about that.
3. Also it seems the fitting of the kitchen is not quite complete.

Buying Furniture In Thailand

When I asked Kanyah if she had anything to sleep on last night, she said no, she just slept on the floor as did her sister and Jalan’s son. That’s OK for Kanyah but not for me.

(She just phoned again, with the same news: Her sister has gone back home to Kamphaeng Phet and she is all by herself and lonely, etc, etc.)

Anyway she asked me to send more money to buy furniture, so I guess I’ll do that. The last thing I want is to arrive in Pakchong (Pak Chong) to live in a bare house and then to spend my time on holiday chasing round furniture shops.

Apart from the fact that I hate shopping, I just know we would be arguing about whet furniture to buy.

Setting Up My Workshop And Buying Machine Tools

No, let her buy the furniture and I’ll spend my holiday setting up the workshop, including buying some machine tools from Bangkok. (More on buying machine tools in Bangkok on the Retirement House Finished – Today Post)

Stop Press – Changed My Mind About The Furniture And Garden

Kanyah just phoned – again – and we discussed buying furniture and sorting the garden.

Starting with the garden she said that she wouldn’t do it until I came because it would be very expensive and we have to design it together.

Then she said she wanted to buy marble stones. (I guess she means paving stones to cover that mass of concrete she has had laid.) I said NO to that. I’m sick of throwing money away on non-essentials.

Next I mentioned buying furniture. Of course she would need more money but I was thrown back when she mentioned how much she wanted.

500, 000 Baht!. That’s £10,000 or $15,000!

I can understand spending that much in the West (e.g. in the UK) but I’m not spending that much in Thailand.

So I told her to buy the basics only. Basics being a fridge, freezer, bed and chair and table (for me)

That’s all for now. Now the retirement house really is officially finished. But still the pain and the spending goes on…

Today Is The Official Completion Of Our Retirement House In Packchong (Pak Chong), Thailand, As Kanyah Moves In

7th November 2011 – Another Difficult-to-Forget 7/11 Date

Today’s the date that as I reported in the Move-In Date Fixed – Thailand Retirement House Build Project Finished… ? Post the monks will come to bless the house and Kanyah will move in to reside there.

The retirement house build project is officially finished.

Silence From Kanyah In Pakchong (Pak Chong), Thailand

Kanyah phoned me yesterday to tell me (again) about the monk’s visit today. But she was very subdued and didn’t sound at all excited. “Send me more money” was the theme of her call.

But she did mention that two water tanks to collect water from the roof had been delivered – each tank 4 m3 capacity. She also said that she had bought a kitchen for 50,000 Baht and had to pay more for the builder to fit it. When I pressed her for details of what was in this kitchen she had bought she said that it was a cooker and kitchen cabinets like in the West. So much for my theory of a Thai kitchen on the Move-In Date Fixed – Thailand Retirement House Build Project Finished… ? Post

I’m not surprised that she hasn’t phoned today – it’s Kanyah’s way. No phone call, no photos, nothing.

Kanyah received for house address (Baan Lek Tee ) on 29th October 2011 as I reported on the
Thai House Address – Baan Lek Tee In Thai Language Post and promised to send me a scan of it to put on the website. That was well over a week ago and nothing arrived so far.

Fine when she wants money and I send it to her immediately. But she can’t even be bothered to send me a scan of the house address or any progress photos. That last time she sent me photos from our retirement house build project in Thailand was on Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 3:15 PM and that is just two weeks ago.

Thinking Of Marrying A Thai Woman And Building A Retirement House In Thailand?

My advice? Read this Post and all the other Posts on this website, read the Dont Retire To Thailand page and think carefully. Above all don’t rush in.

What Next in The Retiring In Thailand Story?

Well, “all” we have done so far is to buy a car in Thailand (Toyota Hilux Pickup), bought some land and built a retirement house in Pakchong (Pak Chong), Thailand.

I haven’t done any retiring at all so there’s that to look forward (?) to…

But let’s get practical.

• She (we) need furniture for the house.
• I need to buy my machine tools and hand tools for the workshop.
• I want a big freezer stocked up with farang food and a bigger fridge stocked up with cool beer.
• I need an Internet connection, my work desk and executive chair…

And my next trip to Thailand is for Christmas and New Year coinciding with the Pakchong (Pak Chong) Cowboy City festival.

I thoroughly enjoyed last year’s festival as recorded (complete with movies) on the Pakchong Cowboy City Countdown 2011 – Happy New Year 1 page and this year it can only be better.

My Model Engineering Workshop In Pakchong (Pak Chong), Thailand

Maybe I’ll send some money to Kanyah for her to buy the furniture so that I can spend my visit looking for machine tools. Steve W tells me that there are streets in Bangkok selling second-hand lathes and milling machines at reasonable prices.

Here are some photos of machine tools for sale in Bangkok that I have found on various Thai websites:-

Second-Hand Lathe for Sale in Bangkok 003

Above, this second-hand lathe for sale in Bangkok, Thailand is advertised on the http://www.machinethai.com website.

Below is a half-decent milling machine for sale on the same website.

Second Hand Milling Machine for Sale in Bangkok 003

My ‘Beautiful’ Workshop Floor Will Be Messed Up In No Time !

Above, these machine tools do a messy job of machining metal. A lot of oil is spalshed on the metal cutters to lubricate it an keep them cool. The metal cuttings (swarf) fly in all directions making an oily dirty mess everywhere.

The ‘beautiful’ marble terrazzo floor that Kanyah has put into my workshop See the (Mission Creep – Costs Escalate – Time Overruns – Photos Show Why) Post will be completly ruind as soon as one of these heavy machines is dragged into position.

Here’s another website selling machine tools in Bangkok:-

http://www.thaimachinetools.com/?machine-type=lathes

To save you leaving this page I have posted a photo of a typical machine tool of the type I’m likely to be putting in my workshop below:-

Another Second Hand Lathe for Sale in Bangkok

I must admit that these machine tools are a bit bigger and older (worn out) than I really want. It’ll take me some time in Bangkok to find small machines in good conditions with lots of accessories.

So, I have my goal set for this forthcoming visit – to set up my model engineering workshop in Pakchong (Pak Chong), Thailand.

After that, it’s back to the UK to earn more money to replenish my depleted pension pot so that I can eventually retire in Thailand.

I expect that Kanyah will stay on in Pakchong (Pak Chong) until the (UK) spring or summer to give her time to make the Pakchong (Pak Chong) house garden ‘beautiful’.

About Steve W

Steve is very knowledgeable (in general but also about Thailand). Some photos of Steve’s houses on these pages:-

• Si Khiu Korat House 1
• Si Khiu Korat Farm

I met Steve out in Pakchong last Christmas and we have kept in touch ever since. His Thai wife is now expecting twins.

Steve (unlike kanyah) just sent me some photos showing the progress on his retirement house build project in Si Khiu Korat near to Pakchong (Pak Chong) and I’ll upload those to the website in the next few days.