Posts Tagged ‘Quotations’

We Started Building Our Retirement House In Thailand Today

Thursday 06 January, 2011, construction started at last on our retirement house in Pakchong (Pak Chong), Thailand! 

That’s quite amazing considering we only signed the contract with the builder on Saturday 1st January. 

This is the culmination of a years work almost exactly to the day looking for and purchasing the land, designing the house, finding a Thai Architect to make the construction plans, finding builders and obtaining quotations and finally agreeing a price with our preferred builder. 

Our builder has given us a construction program showing a build period of 6 months, finishing in June this year. 

Construction Works On Site Today

The builder arrived on site at 1100 in his pickup with 3 labourers and a pile of construction ‘items’ which they promptly unloaded. They then roughly marked the position of the house with twigs at two corners and we agreed the position after making a change from the drawing. 

Start Building Thai House - Construction Stuff

Off they went and returned with a pile of wood, presumably to mark out the house position ‘properly’ and then went off to lunch at a nearby eatery. 

The First Wood Delivery - For The Setting-Out Frame

After they returned the wood was used to set out the house. Levelling was done with the traditional level made from a length of transparent plastic piping filled with water. 

We went for a trip around nearby to take some photos of the hills, had some lunch and returned at around 1530. 

The builders had finished for the day and accomplished the setting out of the house. You can see this in the pictures. Each of the short branches of wood is the centre of each post 4 x 4 = 16 posts. 

The Setting-Out Frame (1)

The Setting-Out Frame (2)

The Setting-Out Frame (3)

Digging holes for two posts will start tomorrow. 

Electricity Connection Started

And, the electricity company arrived and installed the ‘temporary’ electricity meter. That was complete by 1030 when we arrived after receiving a telephone call in the Internet/Copy shop in Pakchong where I was having some documents relating the house build scanned to put on the website. 

I took a look at the meter and saw that the rating was 15/45 A. (15 to 45 Amps). “Ah, good, I thought we can get a full 45 A from day one.” When I asked what current the cables would be sized to carry I was told 15 A only and that 15 A was all I could have for construction. The cables would be changed for bigger ones after the house was completed and we had the ‘permanent’ power connection. 

Electric Meter for Temporary. Power

Looking at all the ‘permanent’ meters in the vicinity and comparing it with our ‘temporary’ meter installation I could find absolutely no difference! So why ‘temporary’ and ‘permanent’ I have no idea. 

The route of the incoming overhead wires was agreed and the number of posts to carry the wires was decided. The installation cost was estimated to be a total of 20,802 Baht, made up of:- 

• 6,802 for the meter
• 14,000 for the electric posts and cable connection.

Kanyah paid 7,000 Baht cash on the spot and has to pay the remainder tomorrow when the electricity company will have returned to site and installed the posts and cables.

Getting the Permanenet Electricity Connected – Update 06 February 2012

In response to a question from a reader I have described how just over a year later we chnaged over from the temporary electricity supply to the permanent supply. You can read all about that on the Getting A Permanent Elecrical Power Supply Connected In Thailand Post.

The “Yok Sow Eg Sow Tor” Ceremony

I’m told by Kanyah that this is the ‘blessing’ of the house and can only take place on certain dates as decided by a Monk based on her birthday date. For the ceremony, two posts of the house have to have already been built. The dates set by the monk were 13th or 20th January or 14th or 21st February. 

Not wanting to delay construction, Kanyah decided that the ceremony would take place on 13th January, hence the builder had to get his skates on to get the two posts built in time. that, apparently, decided the start date of today. Privately, I don’t see how the excavations for the foundations, the foundations themselves and two posts can be complete in the 7 days remaining. Remember the foundations are 2 m deep! 

When I raised this point with Kanyah she poo-poo’d my suggestion and said it was easy for them. (The builders) 

Back to the ceremony itself, which so I am told by my wife includes:- 

• Wrapping Green, Yellow and Red material around the two posts.
• Putting Banana and Sugar Cane trees on the posts.
• Putting a number of leaves on each post, the name of which escape me.
• Lighting ‘the smelly stuff’ (I think she means Joss sticks).
• The blessing by a special person. (Not a Monk, just someone who knows the words).

What Does “Yok Sow Eg Sow Tor” Mean

(Added 23 March 2011) 

I’m taking a flyer on this one and I may be a mile of the mark, but this is my best explanation. “Yok” I think, means “to lift up”. “Sow” is definitely the Thai word for “post”. Not sure about “Eg”, maybe it should be “Eek” which means “again”. By the way, I have not seen this written anywhere else in a Thai tansliteration, nor even Thai, come to that, these are my words based on the way Kanyah says it. I can only think that “Tor” means “ceremony” but I’ll go and check that out on a Thai dictionary. If all that is correct then “Yok Sow Eg Sow Tor” means literally “Lift post up another post ceremony” or “Two post ceremony”. 

That’s it for today. I typed this post at the site of building the house and now I am back on the hotel balcony hooked up to the ‘net and will simply post it onto the website. 

Bye for now 

Alan and Kanyah

House Build Prices Received From Thai Builders

Kanyah received the quotations to build our retirement house from the Thai builders in Pakchong, Thailand, on or around November 15th, 2010.

And I’m Not Very Impressed At All!

Just to recap, my Thai wife, Kanyah, went to Thailand and issued a set of house plans and Bills of Quantity (BOQ) to six builders and/or construction companies that she located in Pakchong, where we want to build our retirment house, while I stayed here in the U.K earning the money to pay for it all. I am in contact with Kanyah by phone and sometimes by email, but the communication is not very good.

Anyway, she told me that the prices from all the builders was the same! The quotations we received were well above what we wanted to pay and way over our budget. I’m not going to reveal the price here (I can call it ‘the’ price because all the prices were the same) because we still have to arrive at a figure that we can go ahead with and this isn’t it!

I asked Kanyah to get the completed BOQ’s from all the builders so that I can compare the quotes. She said there is no point in that because all the prices are the same! Talk about frustration, I am tearing my hair out trying to make my point that if I get all, or even just one, completed BOQ I can at least do some checking as to what the builder has allowed for. After all that was one of the main reasons for commissioning the BOQ in the first place.

Unfortunately, my wife being Thai is happy to have things done (or not done as the case may be) the Thai way, rather than the Western way.

The Project Is Now On Hold Until I Go To Thailand Over Christmas (2010)!

The plan was that by 15th November we would have several quotations to build our house and the next few weeks would be spent checking the quotes and BOQs, clarifying any questions or misunderstandings over the Scope of Works and materails and fittings selection and quality. This would then allow us to select the preferred builder and when I visit in December I would be able to negotiate and sign a Contract with one of the builders.

Instead, Kanyah is doing nothing and getting no more information. “Wait until you come” she says. Well that is just wasting time and for me extremely frustrating.

Bottom line is, you have to be in Thailand when getting prices from Thai builders to build your retirement house in Thailand. So everything is on hold until I get out there.

Another quick and brief update on Kanyah’s progress on finding builders to construct our house in Pakchong, Thailand.

It certainly pays to ask around! Kanyah has now handed over sets of Construction Drawings to five builders and has a meeting arranged with a fith next Thursday. This last builder was introduced to her by a sales representative at Boonchai Construction Company 1992 whom she met when she went to their shop to get prices for building materials.

The kind gentleman at Boonchai Construction also gave her a list of websites from where we could select certain materials:-

Making And Using Bills of Quantity (BOQ)

I have commissioned our Architect the Kensington Company to produce a set of Bills of Quantity for the house based on the final construction drawings. This will help us to check and monitor costs and quotations from builders, to obtain quotations for the materails and qwill also help the builders and suppliers to prepare quotations for us.

Also, all the builders and suppliers will be quoting on a like-for-like basis and will not have to make their own BOQ saving them time and money.

The other big advantage of having a BOQ is that if the total price for the build as quoted by the builders is outside aour budget it will be a simple and quick matter to make changes to the materials to reduce the cost. One simple example would be to change from the special ventilated Ceris roof tile to a sheet material. Not want we want but something like that could make a big price difference.

I am aware that some people say not to give your BOQ to builders. There are several posts by visitors to the website on New House Plans And Building A House in Thailand.

More Information on BOQs:

Finding Builders in Thailand To Build Our Retirement House In Pakchong

A Thai Builders Cost Estimate For Constructing Our Thai Retirement House

Registered Building Companies Aren’t Interested In Small Projects

In another post I mentioned the problems Kanyah was having finding a building company who was big enough to do the purchase of the materials as well as the installation works. Kanyah phoned me again today (12 October 2010) and repeated her story. In fact it’s pretty much the same story that I reported on the Finding Builders In Pakchong, Thailand page.

All the people (Builders, Suppliers) tell her that any properly registered building company is only interested in doing the multi-million Baht development projects. ( 10-100 million Baht). None of these big companies are interested in our tiny little project and the builders who may be interested in building our house don’t have the capital to do the materials procurement.

So it seems that we are stuck with the Labor Only builder and we have to buy the materials.

And that brings me back to BOQ again. Kanyah just went to a large wood-yard to get quotations for all the wood in our house. Floor and walls are wood.

They asked her for the quantities required and said that they were too busy to measure from the construction drawings and would only deal with a builder when the builder has the quantities.

So, BOQ to the rescue again. When we receive the BOQ from Kensington, Kanyah will go back to the wood-yard again and get a quotation.

We Are Moving Closer to Our Dream Of Retiring In Thailand

The last week has been really busy and we have moved forward a couple of steps towards our dream of finally retiring in our dream house in Thailand.

We have received a set of 19 almost complete drawings from our Thai architect to review and Kanyah has booked her air ticket to visit Thailand on 23 September 2010.

Thai Architect’s House Plans Received For Review

As you know from the Post “A Thai Architect In Bangkok Is Making Our Retirement House Plans“, we have employed an archtiectural company from Bangkok to design our retirement house in Pakchong, Thailand. I have even posted images of some of the preliminary drawings they have produced for us on the Post “House Plans For Our Retirement House Produced By A Thai Architect“.

Now, we have received 19 construction drawings that are 90% complete for our review. I estimate there are about another five or six drawings to make, bringing us to a total of around 25 drawings. That is a LOT of drawings. I’ll be uploading them to a web page when I have time. If you want me to let you know when they are ready to view online please join the Announcement List and I’ll send you an email when they are uploaded.

The architect has said that he expects these to be complete before the end of the month. So, at the end of September 2010 we will have a set of drawings that we can use to:-

• Submit to the Or Bor Tor Office to get the Building Permit.
• Issue to Thai builders to get quotations to build our retirement house in Pakchong, Thailand.
• Form as part on a contract with our selected builder to construct the house.
• Build the house from.

All that’s very exciting but nothing in Thailand will happen while we are here in U.K. That’s why my Thai wife, Kanyah, is going to Thailand in a weeks time.

Kanyah Is Going To Thailand to Build The House

Kanyah has her air ticket booked for the evening flight from London Heathrow to Bangkok on Thursday 23 September 2010.

In Thailand she will have a lot to do to get the house-build started. Our original target was to have the house plans finished by the end of August, start building in September and have the house finished in time for me to stay in on my Christmas visit. That has all been put back now, not only because the house plans aren’t finished yet, but also because we are beging to realise the difficulties we will be facing.

The difficulties in building our retirement house in Thailand mostly lie in Kanyah’s lack of knowledge about construction and project management. Therefore she will need my help to:-

• Review the builders’ quotations
• Explain to the builder any changes we want to make from the Tender drawings
• Negociate and agree the details of the contract with the builder
• Obtain and finalise a contract with the builder

So, because she has so much to do before we even get to that stage, we have agreed that the construction will not start until my planned visit to Thailand on 19th December 2010.

Until then she has plenty to do including:-

• Collecting our new Toyota Pickup from her daughter’s house in Bangkok and driving to Pakchong.
• Finding some reasonable accommodation in Pakchong. Most likely to be “The Mansion”.
• Receive the hard copy version of the final Construction drawings from the architect.
• Decide on all the finishes and fitting fopr the house. things like floor and wall tile patterns and colors, wood floor type and color, bathroom fittings etc.
• Submit the Construction Drawings to the Or Bor Tor Office and receive the Building Permit.
• Arrange temporary electrical and water supplies for the construction.
• Get the land cleared of vegitation ready for construction to commence.
• Make multiple copies of the Construction Drawings.
• Locate some Thai building companies and give them a pack of Construction Drawings so that they can prepare a price to build the house.
• Receive the prices to build the house from the builders.
• Learn to use email so that we can exchange information over the Internet. Yes, she has no idea how to use a computer and has never sent an email in her life.

In addition she has to get a Thai driving license and renew her Thai passport.

Quite a lot of things for her to do, before I arrrive in December to help her get the house build under way.

Finding an Architect in Thailand to Design Your Retirement Home

I never thought it would be so difficult to find an architect in Thailand to design your retirement house and make the plans for building permission and construction.

As you may know already if you have looked around the website, my wife has bought a piece of land (1 Rai) in Pakchong on which we want to build our home to retire to in Thailand.

Early this year I made a set of house plans (in other words I designed our planned home) which you can see here: http://retiringinthailand.net/house-build-thailand-2/

Since then I have bought the land and updated the house drawings. The next step was to find an architect to take my existing house plans as a starting point and produce a set of proper drawings that can be used for:-

A) obtaining the building permit

B) obtaining quotations from builder to build the house and

C) building the house

You would not believe how difficult this is.

Of course I am living in the UK and trying to do this over the Internet. If I was in Thailand it would not be so difficult I’m sure.

I Came Very Close To Signing A Contract With A Thai Architect

Last year I found a Thai company and they gave me a budget price to build the house and a price to make the plans. (House drawings).

The price was higher than my wife was comfortable with and so I was reluctant to go ahead. But time is passing by and I want to get the drawings finished ready to start building in September after the rainy season has finished. So I sent of all the latest and updated information and received a confirmed price.

As I mentioned, the company had previously given me a budget price for building the house based on a unit rate of 15,000 to 20,000 Baht/m2. you can see all the details at The Budget Price Of Building A House In Thailand. The quote for making the house drawings was based on 7% of this construction cost estimate. Well, if you have seen the Pictures Of The House We Are Building In Thailand you will know that half of the ground floor is ‘empty’ and the other half is simply a blockwork ‘shed’. So I reckoned that the unit rate for the construction cost should be lower for the ground floor making the cost of the house – and hence the architects fees lower since they are based on a %age of the estimated construction cost.

I put this to the company offering to make the retirement house drawings for me and although at first they responded that their price was “their fixed, standard low price and could not be reduced” they eventually offered a very small discount, for which I was grateful. My wife, being Thai always asks for a discount when she goes shopping and I had to follow suit in this case, otherwise she may not have agreed to go ahead.

Anyway, I wanted to agree to the new price and and asked them to send me a payment schedule, which was duly received. I expected this to be based on progress. In other words each stage payment would reflect the amount of work completed. For example when half the work is complete I would pay 50% 0f the fees. This sounds fair to me.

But what I was offered was ‘front end loaded’ as you can see below!

This what the company proposed as a fee payment schedule to make the house plans for our Thai retirement home:-

• 1^st 50% advance after sign contract
• 2^nd 30% when propose first draft preliminary design
• 3^rd 10% when propose final draft and perspective
• 4^th 10% when complete of construction and permission drawing and submits to client

What didn’t I like about this? Well, for starters I have already produced the concept drawings so steps 1 and 2 are already finished! Even if this represents the half-way stage, I am paying 80% of the fee for 50% of the work.

The last two 10% items is where the important parts of the work are. And there is over 50% of the total work here. What incentive is there for the architect to do 50% of the work for 20% of the fee? I am very nervous that this part of the work will never be complete – at least to a good standard.

So I made another attempt at finding an alternative architect in Thailand to make our house drawings.

A List Of Thai Architects

The first thing I did was to google ‘Thai Architect’. this came up with a few individual websites and one business directory listing dozens if not a hundred Thai architects.

Here is a link to the list of Thai Architects:

http://www.bangkokcompanies.com/categories/thai_companies_p407.htm

Next I sent an email to all the architects who had a website or an email address. Here is a list of those:-

http://www.thailandarchitects.com/contact-us

http://www.archinet.co.th

bangkokcompanies@gmail.com

arch@aanda.co.th

siripongy@yahoo.com

a_seven@thaimail.com

And here is the message I sent them:-

Hello,

I am Thai living (at the moment) in U.K. I have bought some land in Pakchong and will be building a house there.

Can you please give me a price to make the house plans.

All the information is in the files you can download from

http://retiringinthailand.net/downloads

Here are the individual download links:-

http://retiringinthailand.net/downloads/Thai-House-Plan-Kanyah-Pakchong-HOUSE-100701-1.zip

http://retiringinthailand.net/downloads/Thai-House-Plan-Kanyah-Pakchong-HOUSE-100701-2.zip

http://retiringinthailand.net/downloads/Thai-House-Plan-Kanyah-Pakchong-HOUSE-100701-3.zip

Thank You
Kanyah

By the way those are real download links. You can download for free all the plans for my Thai retirement house.

The drawings are in AutoCAD 2006 and pdf format. You can also download some photos, spreadsheets and Word documents. These explain the scope of works for the architect and give a detailed specification for the house and it’s construction.

That’s all for now. I’ll be reporting if If I get any replies.

Update July 2010 – Response Received

From all those architects I contacted I only had one email by way of response. Here it is:-

—————————————————————————————————————–

Dear Kanyah,

I appreciate your interest in the designs for your home.

We looked at them and for basic design contract to supply finished architects construction drawings. Cost of construction we think would be 1.6m -2.2m baht plus vat (7%). But only the construction contractor will know this once the architects drawings are completed.

Our fee for this would be 150,000 baht plus vat (7%)

This does not include:

1. Applications of permission to build but we do supply engineers and architects information for you to use in application.

2. It does not include interior design, landscaping or travel expenses if required to visit site. (We think we can design this without going to the site if all information is provided correctly by yourself.)

Sincerely,

Name removed for Privacy

—————————————————————————————————————–

(Note I was using my wife’s name, Kanyah, as the contact)

So I sent a simple question to this Architect:-

—————————————————————————————————————–

Update August 2010 – I Have Appointed A Thai Architect

After that I decided to go with the Thai company who gave me a budget price for my house and a design fee proposal I described above.

And I’m now glad I did because I am delighted with their service and the work they do. Highly recommended.

Here are some links to the work they have done and what I have said about the way they work:-

Thai Architects House Plans

Comments On Thai Architects Preliminary House Design

More Comments On Thai Architects Preliminary House Design

A Thai Architect In Bangkok Is Making Our Retirement House Plans

If you want to contact the very same architectural and construction company I use and recommend, I suggest that you to do so using this contact Form because then you will receive the same personal attention that I did.