Archive for March, 2010

Problems Buying Land In Thailand

Just as you come to expect in Thailand, when trying to buy land and build a retirement house (or trying to get anything done for that matter), a problem suddenly comes at you out of the blue.

What To Do When The Marker Posts Are Knocked Down

If the land has a Nor Sor Saam (3) Gaw or Chanoht title deed the extremities of the land will be marked by numbered posts plcaed by the Land Office when they undertook the land survey and these posts will appear on a map on the land title deed.

(This is described on the Buying Our Land In Thailand page on this website.)

So, I had an email from daeng in Thailand explaining that some posts had been removed. This is the email:-


Date Thur, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:28 PM

Subject Re: Daeng & Mum – Alans Visit

Hello Alan

We’re in Pakchong.

We went to measure the land, it’s 20x80m.

The road is public, not a individual road.

Electricity / water and telephone are ready.

But we found 2 post was damaged (pls see chanot; post number 1842 and 3342)

Then we went to the land department, they suggested that we shuld ask the owner to make a report and request for the new post before change the name in chanot (it takes time about 5 months/ shuld be finish in august)

Anyway we can sign contract tomorrow (19 mar) and pay depost money (100,000thb) then waitting for the new post from the land department.

After that (shuld be not more than 15 days) we will pay the rest of the money (900,000thb) when the owner change the name on chanot in same day.

All this matter must be specify in the contract.

Any news I will talk to you soon

Love

Daeng

Sent from my iPod


And here is a follow-up email…


Date Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 2:28 PM

Subject RE: Thank you – questions Re: Daeng & Mum – Alans Visit

Hello Alan,

About the posts, one is no number (it’s broken).

Another one is incorrect located (it’s broken and move from the correct position)

The land department said we must have a post in a good condition (not damage/correct location/ect), means that we must have a new one.

About the contract,Today, mum has signed a contract.

The owner accept to make a report and requst a new posts for us and all it’s identify in our contract.

They can do whitin 2 months, so in a contract identify the during time to pay the rest of the money from 19mar – 30may.

All payment depend on the new posts, after the land department approve a new posts we have to go to Pakchong again to see the officer put it on the land together with the owner (buyer/saler and the land officer).

About the land, (pls see below)

On the day to change the name on chanot, you must come to the land department to give a joint written confirmation that the money which that mum will expend on purchasing the land is wholly the separate property or personal effects of mum and not the Sin Somros or jointly acquired property. Then the chanot will belong to mum’s name only.

Your documents require; ID card, passport, a marriage license.


Now in a previous email, Daeng had said that it would take 5 months for the Land Office to put the posts back and re-survey. That takes us until August and much too slow.

If you read the above email, Daeng said it will take ‘only’ 2 months, meaning that the land purchase can be completed about the middle of May.

Apparently, the land owner will pay 3,000 Baht for a private company to put back the posts and confirm their position to the Land Office. I have no idea how this works, what they will do or how legal it is! I just have to assume that Daeng knows what is going on…

The New Land Purchase Programme

Let me summarise the events, both historic and in the future appertaining to buying the land on which we will build our retirement home in Thailand:-

Historic

Sunday 7th February, 2010:  My wife (Kanyah) and son (Alex) flew out from here in the U.K. to Bangkok and started to search for land to buy in Thailand. Several plots of land for sale were located. One was finally chosen as the piece of land to purchase.

Friday, 19th Mar, 2010: My wife paid a deposit and signed the contract to buy the land of her choice.

Future

19 March – 19 May, 2010: (Approximately) the land survey company will fix the posts and the Land Office will approve.

19 March – 30 May, 2010: (Approximately) the land purchase will be completed, the Chanot signed off. I have to be in Thailand for that day. I intend to get my name on the Chanoht as having beneficiary rights to the land.

More Information About Buying Land In Thailand And Thai Land Title Deeds

Get To Know The Various Types Of Land And Land Certificates In Thailand

Check List When Buying Land In Thailand

How foreigners can have their name on the Thai Land Title Deeds as a legal user (beneficiary) of the land (not as owner).

Note to all Farangs. This is little known by Thai’s – even Thai Lawyers.

This is called a “Usufruct” or in Thai, “sit thi gap gin ta lord shee vit”

Collected The Toyota Pickup Yesterday

Just a quick update on buying a car in Thailand.

If you have read an earlier post on this Retiring In Thailand website where I describe how I went about buying a car in Thailand, you will know that we settled on a brand new Toyota Pickup (Toyota Hilux 4WD 2.5 D-4D HL2 Single Cab 2dr) for 550,000 Bhat. That included road tax and one years free insurance.

Well on that day almost a month to the day my wife paid a deposit of 100,000 Baht for the pickup to the Bangkok car dealer, due to be available for collection on the 15th March.

When she called them near to the time to ask about collection they confirmed that yes, the car (pickup) would be ready on the 15th. And so it was. But.

There’s always a but! For some unexplained reason she didn’t go to pick up the car until yesterday, 16th March. When I called her later on the 16th she had taken the pickup home and complained about some problems with the windows and keys!

When I here the word ‘problem’ coming out of Thailand my wallet gives a twitch and snuggles down deeper inside my pocket. ‘Problems’ always need money to sort them out…

Anyway, as she explained, the pickup when she collected it was provided with manual windows (wind up – wind down by hand0 and you had to lock each door with the key. Now when she was talking about locking doors, keys and problems, my first thought was that she had locked the keys inside the pickup.

No, it seems she asked the car dealer to change the windows to electric operation and the door locking to central locking, radio controlled type.

She said all that was done for ‘only 6,900 Baht.

The other thing she mentioned was that it was ‘a lovely colour’.

Explaining this to a friend later I made the comment that I didn’t understand why she hadn’t spotted those things when she first inspected the cars on sale in Bankok paid the deposit. His reply:- “Because she’s a women. She was probably more interested in the colour”. Well I did then tell him that her delight about the colour was one of the things she liked best about the pickup!

Anyway, seems she took possession of the car without too much hassle. I was worried how she was going to pay for the car – I didn’t think the idea of carrying and handing over 450,000 Baht in cash was very safe and asked her to get a debit card form her bank and pay using that. I still have to check with her what she dis in the end. Also she is taking some photo’s today of the car and I’ll post them and some information about the dealers address etc as soon as she emails them through to me.

So that’s a brief update on buying a car in Thailand.

Of course, it’s only about a Thai national buying a car in Bankok, Thailand, not how a farang can buy a car in Thailand.

For more information on why we decided to buy a brand new car in Thailand rather than a second-hand car please read the previous post on buying a car in Thailand.

New! Just Added – Complete Car Information And Photos

Today (18 March 2010) I have just created a new page on the website giving all the details of the Toyota Hilux Viga pickup we bought in Bangkok, Thailand.

There is a mass of information on that web page including a breakdown of the cost for the car itself and the extras, a full list of what was included in the price, the name and address of the car dealer and a few photographs.

This detailed information will be invaluable for anyone thinking about buying a car in Thailand.

Check List When Buying Land In Thailand

My Thai wife is in Thailand negotiating to buy a plot of land upon which to build our retirement house.

I’m here in UK and armed with the book (my ‘Bible’) How to Buy Land and Build a House in Thailand by Philip Bryce I’m checking progress remotely. There are important some things in that book relating to legal matters when buying land in Thailand that even the Thai’s aren’t aware of!

Below is an extract from an Email I just today sent to my wife. It’s a checklist for her and I’m sure you’ll find it useful too:-

<Start of email>

1. Check everything before you sign the Contract.

After the Contract is signed if you find something wrong it is too late.

2. Get a Lawyer or Solicitor to check everything. There may be things that we are not aware of.

For example check that nobody else has a claim to use the land.

2. Check the back side of the Chanoht.

Make sure that the person you are talking to has their name as the owner of the land written on the Chanoht. If necessary check their ID Card.

Make sure that there are no loans secured on the land.

3. Make sure that you get a legal paper giving you the rights to use the Access road forever. (See drawings enclosed) Note. The drawings will be posted on the website proper.

4. I can have my name on the Chanoht as a legal user of the land (not as owner).

Note to all Farangs. This is little known by Thai’s – even Thai Lawyers.

This is called a “Usufruct” or in Thai, “sit thi gap gin ta lord shee vit”

You can read about it on this website:-

http://www.thailandlawonline.com/property_law_2.html

Foreigners can however protect their interest in the property.

In case of land and house purchase in the name of the Thai spouse foreigners have the following options:

  • (a) agree on the registration of a Right of Usufruct in favor of the foreign spouse,

Not all lawyers know about this.

If I put my name on the Chanoht, I have legal right to use the land and the property even if you die before me.

But I have to be in Thailand to do that at the time the land is transferred to your name.

How and when is the date to make the Chanoht fixed. Is it in the Contract when you put the deposit?

5. Look at the attached drawing of the land, the house and the access road. Note. The drawings will be posted on the website proper.

It seems the house will fit.

Is my drawing correct?

6 Architect

I don’t understand what that Architect is doing. I don’t want to pay for the drawings until  we have decided finally on the house design we want.

<End of email>

The Cost Of Buying Land In Thailand

Three weeks ago my wife and my son went to Thailand to look for land upon which to build our retirement house.

How To Find Land For Sale In Thailand

Unlike in the west where you can go to estate agents or simply seach on the Internet for land for sale, a different approach is needed in Thailand.

I searched for land for sale in Thailand on the Internet and fouind nothing of any interest. Sure, there were some large commercial developments but we wanted a piece of local land, not part of a commercial development.

What they (my wife and my son) did was to drive by car to the area of interest and ask. Ask who? Shopkeepers, people in existing houses, people working in hotels – anyone.

That’s how they found some plots of land available in the Province (Jangwat) of Nakhon Ratchasima which is the area we are interested in.

I’ll post some details, including photos, of the plots of land for sale on the website proper, this is just a quick post to let you know our current situation.

Well, as all things in Thailand, the situation is a bit confused (from here anyway) and although my wife speaks very good english, it is difficult to get much detailed information over theb phone.

Anyway, they found two sellers of land. One had 2 Rai available for 1,500,000 Baht, the other had two plots each of 1 Rai asking 1,200,000 Baht each.

(Thai Land Measurements (Rai, Ngan, Talang Wah, Talang Mett) are explained here)

The 1 Rai plots have a connecting road, have been cleared of trees etc and have water and electricity connections available. Also it will be possible to have broadband Internet connected.

The 2 Rai plot is not cleared, has no connecting road nor utility connections.

There is lack of clarity if the they have Chanoht or Nor Sor 3 Gaw. At first I was told they had Nor Sor 3 Gaw, now it appears they have a Chanoht.

If you are wondering what Nor Sor 3 Gaw and Chanoht means I’ll explain briefly here and give a fuller explanation on the website proper.

Basically these are different forms of legal documents relating to the ownership and right of use of land. There are several more types of lesser value and I’ll explain those on the website, but here is a simplified explanation of Nor Sor 3 Gaw and Chanoht.

What Nor Sor 3 Gaw and Chanoht Mean – Thai Land Deeds

Nor Sor 3 Gaw

Nor Sor 3 Gaw is a legal certificate allowing the person named on it the right to use the land, including the rights to build a house or run a business.

The document includes an accurate map defining the boundaries of the land. Note however that it is not a certificate of ownership.

Chanoht

A Chanoht is the top level of land deed and is a certificate of land ownership. It is a true land deed.

Like the Nor Sor 3 Gaw it has an accurate map defining the boundaries of the land.

Land with a Chanoht is more expensive than land with lesser land certificates.

Confirming Ownership

Their seems to be some lack of clarity over whether the land actually belongs to the person offering the plots for sale. It should be straightforward because their name should be on the Chanoht. Anyway, when I phoned today my wife and her daughter were checking in the local Land Office.

The Architect’s Drawings

If you have seen the drawings I made of the house we want to build in Thailand you will know that I have  designed the house we want to build in Thailand, at least in outline form anyway. These drawings are enough to show builders and Architects what we want but not good enough to actually build the house or get a fixed (and reasonable!) price for building it.

For those purposes we need proper house drawings made by a Thai Architect.

How to Find An Architect In Thailand

Yes, you can find some architects in Thailand on the Internet. But they tend to be the bigger (and more expensive) practices in Bangkok. We wanted a local architect.

As with finding land my wife found a local architect by knocking on the door of a house they admired and asking who designed their house!

Put in touch with their designer my wife handed over an information pack on CD ROM I had prepared including the drawings of the house we want to build in Thailand and a brief Specification plus a Pricing Schedule.

The architect happily took the information pack away with him and they agreed to meet again in two weeks. That was two weeks ago so they are meeting later this afternoon. Quite what the architect is going to show my wife later today isn’t clear to me. Whether he has made all the drawings or just prepared a price for making the drawings I don’t know. Seems like my wife doesn’t know also!

Anyway, whatever we get I’ll put it on the website for you.

That’s all for now, be in touch later.

What Kind Of Person Can Benefit From The Retiring In Thailand Website?

Every person has his own individual rationale for going to Thailand. A youthful backpacker on the lookout for adventure, a bachelor in search of a way to earn some cash.
Alternatively perhaps you are someone looking for adventure, a friendless divorcee yearning for a different pal, a retiring senior needing to let everything go and get pleasure from the rest of his life.
No matter what your incentive for moving to Thailand, this is one certainty . . you’ve arrived at the best place to find wonderful guidelines and thoughts for satisfactory retirement to Thailand.
Travelling to Thailand for a more extensive time prior to being retired in Thailand is an excellent way to ascertain whether this is the Heaven for you. A few people come to Thailand for many weeks to 12 months to discover if it’s a good idea to retire to Thailand and discover the part of Thailand they want to live in.

Every person has his own individual rationale for going to Thailand. A youthful backpacker on the lookout for adventure, a bachelor in search of a way to earn some cash.

Alternatively perhaps you are someone looking for adventure, a friendless divorcee yearning for a different pal, a retiring senior needing to let everything go and get pleasure from the rest of his life.

No matter what your incentive for moving to Thailand, this is one certainty . . . you’ve arrived at the best place to find wonderful guidelines and thoughts for satisfactory retirement to Thailand.

Travelling to Thailand for a more extensive time prior to being retired in Thailand is an excellent way to ascertain whether this is the Heaven for you. A few people come to Thailand for many weeks to 12 months to discover if it’s a good idea to retire to Thailand and discover the part of Thailand they want to live in.

All The Information About Retiring In Thailand

A I prepare for my retirement to Thailand, find some land, design and build a retirement house in Thailand, I will be recording every step of the way on the website.

You can learn from everything I did, whether it was right or wrong! If I made a mistake you could learn from it and possibly avoid some necessary expenses.

So come back often, join the announcement list and leave some comments on the website.

Thank you for dropping by and hope to see you again.

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